it's for real, it will happen

The struggle to stay alive

I wake up, and question myself. Why am I here? I do want to die, so who am I living for?I try to visualize the future, and all that is is a world of pitch black, where hope has no form and happiness has no place. It is this suffocating sense of the non existence of a future, the reality that is too bleak and colorless that accompanies each and every day. The vibrance of the world, the stark contrast to the lonely soul trapped within me does nothing, nothing at all but make me feel worse. Do not, do not tell me how beautiful the world is, how precious life is. Do not, do not tell me how lucky I am, how much happiness there should be in my life. Last of all, do not tell me all the tens of thousands of others amongst the 7 billion destructive beings on this planet who has a way more miserable life. I know. I already know, I already told you. How many times do i have to repeat? Yes, I am not a starving African child. Yes, I have parents. Yes, I have education and a house to live in and food to eat and clean water to drink and everything so what else do I want?? Go ahead, take that all away from me. The thing is that is ME, and i feel like this because i am who i am and i did not choose it. Do you think i chose to be miserable, because yes, indeed, i enjoy it really much?It happens, even the richest billionaire on earth might not feel entirely happy. Happiness is not defined by material substances, remember? That kid in Cambodia, she might be poor  but she is happy because she is able to see light, she had parents who love her and kids who play with her, she does not have that black veil of dread and hopelessness shrouding her, she does not have that thick impenetrable glass keeping her from reaching out, leaving her incapable of feeling and seeing what everyone else does. This is the stark reality of life... i consider myself dead. so i dont care what happens, i can do whatever i want. I am dead... what more do i have to loose? if i get to jail or anything, i shall tell myself, on 23 August 2012, you already died. now you are just living the empty shell of a life, up to you how you want to toss it around... it doesnt matter

If you had three wishes what would they be?

I only need one. One is enough.

Do you wish you’re dead?

No.

I don’t wish I am dead. For me to be dead implies that I would have to be living before I could die. And essentially translates that it would and would have affected the people, all of them around me when choose to end my life. No, I don’t want to do this, to them, to myself.

I wish, I had never existed.

To the stars and beyond

today's night is wispy
my vision is misty
ethereal wishes soar
light and free
breezes blow
thoughts flow
the scent of death
perfuming the air
sweet as sugar
cold as ice
ahead looms a figure
glinting red eyes
a hand he raises
scaly and coarse
yet with ever so much grace
though his voice hoarse
pretty as a petal
steely as metal
he beckons me forward
and so i follow
but not because i'm cornered


the world beyond tempts me ever so
the alluring promise of no sorrow


i know where i'm going...

To the stars and beyond

what if
I wanted to kill someone?
I know murder is never right
nothing justifies taking another's life
not hatred, not revenge



what if
she robs your mind and steals your heart
day and night because of her you cry
and you can't run away
no matter how hard you try



what if
the only way to end your pain
is to take away her life?
the moment she ceases to breath
you will be free



I know this is bad
that I am evil
and probably mad
yeah, maybe I AM the devil



but what if
the person I sought so long to kill
is none other than me?
what if,
the life I've wanted so desperately to end
is mine?






it's never right to take someone's life
I've always known.
so
the life I am ending is my own.

Maybe one day things will be better

 I dream of a place that has never existed

It's gonna be too late 'cos when i say 'Bye' i mean it

 This is my wish for you: Comfort on difficult days, smiles when sadness intrudes, rainbows to follow the clouds, laughter to kiss your lips, sunsets to warm your heart, hugs when spirits sag, beauty for your eyes to see, friendships to brighten your being, faith so that you can believe, confidence for when you doubt, courage to know yourself, patience to accept the truth, love to complete your life.

I will one day

 I don't cut my wrist that's why you don't see :[

Which is good, because I don't want you to. Mom say she will call the police if she sees, but I won't let her. And she should know it's no use 'cos nobody can save you from yourself!

I don't know who I am anymore

this is sad, so, so, sad... slipping away into the unseen, sinking into the bottomless pit, not seen, nor heard... never again will I see the sun rise, or hear the sweet calming melody of the song... notes dangling in midair, somewhat frozen into place... nowhere to land and immobilized, the beautiful voice encased in the hard solid ice... the sun sets and one day it might not rise, now I see it for myself  with my own eyes... the last glimpse of light I caught, swallowed by the entity of darkness overhead... the looming sense of dread approaching, pressing down unto the lungs never ceasing... saturating the air with cold and fog... drawing the life out of me...I gasp for air and suffocate, pain is like a neverending chore... the only life I ever had... and that is slipping away too, out of my clutches... don't you say I didn't try, don't you say I didn't fight, all this while I struggled to cling onto the last ray of hope, yet you took that away too without a look, I ain't got no time for no hell, I ain't got no time to get well

 Ok, guys, I know. This world is covered with an incredible variety of @ssholes. But anyway, some good vibes (not that I give a damn about those creepily positive rubbish)  if I say it's raining cats and dogs in my life right now some freak will be bound to say 'LEARN THE ART OF DANCING IN THE RAIN!' Like I am sooo eager to get myself drenched, am I? And I have to suffer side effects I.e. a bad cold. These people obviously don't have a brain. Their logic is rain→shine whereas mine is rain→more rain→thunderstorm. Now we can't deny either of this can happen, so why slam the label of 'pessimist' onto me? So, yeah. Don't assume that you're a sloppy optimist entails that you should convert all others into someone like you. Life just isn't for everyone, thank you very much.

Those who loved me... or at least those I felt loved around... they aren't supposed to talk to me , and they are 'bad influences??? What sort of logic is this? My parents claim to love me, ok, I'm not them, I will never know what they truly think, maybe they do or maybe they don't , but it's a fact I don't exactly feel like someone worthy of living when I'm around them. All they do is remind me of how much of a burden I am to them, by saying things such as "Do you know how much it costs to raise you up, you ungrateful brat" or "If you want to die then go. Go ahead. Don't spread your crap throughout the family." Hey did I ask to be here? Did I? I did not, right??? Did I say, "Please will you bring me into this world?" You wanted me, you wanted a child, so you gave birth to me. Since you wanted me, you have to accept that you have to raise the kid, right??? Is it a very, very, unbelievably huge favor, that I, who have not had the chance to choose whether or not I lived, is now relying on you to live, because you want me to? Because I can't provide for myself yet? You say all this to me, and when I sought out others, who may not be as noble a saint as you, to comfort me and treat me the way I should be treated, like a child, and not be expected to shoulder the weight of everything upon myself, you say that they are the 'bad ones' and you are the ones whom I should talk to in times of need. If this is a joke, then it's a pretty bad one. You are the primary cause of the troubles and woes I have, the reason I even need to sought out other people to care in the first place. When you yelled at me, threw things at me, hit me, THEY were the people who sung to me, told me not to cry, and reminded me that no matter what, tomorrow the sun will rise. They were the people who held me, and genuinely made me feel that I'm not unwanted, and I'm loved, even if just for a moment. If you care, then SHOW it. Don't just say using your mouth that you care, I can't cut open your brain to see if that's really what you're thinking. If you don't actually give a damn, like what your actions and words portray, then stop insisting that you do because evidently you don't. May I ask when is one time you ever took me out and spent time alone with me, WILLINGLY, without me asking(not that I do often) in the past years? Have you even helped me washed anything before? Even when you cook dinner for me you have to make it sound like I owe you the universe. Yes I do. I mightn't be able to repay you, but if that's what you want maybe I can live solely for the purpose of repaying all the debts I owe, so that both parties can die in peace, I, knowing that I do not owe you a single fking thing, and you, knowing that you got back your money. If it's all about money, and the precious time in your life that you wasted on me, then it's pretty easy to settle. Now that I am old enough to realize I do have a choice over my life, whether or not to live, I would like to tell you that I do not owe you my life. Yes you might argue that my life is "given" by you and henceforth I shall cherish it, but do you even know the definition of 'give'??? To give means that something is no longer yours, and you have no control over it. It now belongs to whoever you have given it to. For example if you give a box of chocolates to your teacher and she doesn't like it and decides to throw it away, does it concern you? You have no say whatsoever on it, and no right to interfere with whatever she wants to do with that box of chocolates, because you GAVE it to her, its now HERS. Get it? Stop being ignorant fools. Stop it. Just stop. You can hit me all you want, I inflict enough pain on myself too, but can you please stop using words against me. It's brutal, and you're just destroying me. And you claim to love me? Nice joke.

my days are numbered

The ultimate considerations

I've only considered some methods, others are totally out of the way.

Poisons/Chemicals (e.g: KCN, Rodenticide, Arsenic Trioxide, Chlorine, Hydrochloric Acid [concentrated], Alcohol Poisoning [>70% alcohol concentration])

Commom household chemicals contain enough toxic substances to be lethal but more often than not they are mixed up and are mostly acids, which are gonna hurt a hell lot when it burns your alimentary canal after ingestion. Desirable substances that are known to be one of the "best" methods, like KCN (Potassium Cyanide) are extremely hard to obtain. Hence for 12½ years olds like me, drop the idea.

-not too sure about minimum lethal dosage
-obvious as suicide (concerns regarding insurance)

Jumping/Falling from height (building, bridge... anywhere higher than 46 meters on land and 76 meters on water will do)

-obvious as suicide
-affect house prices (if it's from a HDB flat)
-may cause trauma to passersby
-poor police clearing up my mangled body (they probably don't give a damn about bloody scenes anymore since they have seen so many cases of such stuff but to counter the belief of "selfishness", I would like to spare a thought for them)

Hanging

-might be painful and high risk of failed attempt, if not done properly
-might end up brain dead if rescued before ultimately dead
-I heard it takes really long
-I don't know where to hang from... someone suggested doorknob. I don't have a ceiling fan
-rope snapping... I'm fat
-how thick should the rope be?
-what knot to use&how to tie it?
-hanging corpse is a horrible typical suicide pose
-house price gonna drop ( I don't know where else to do it other than in the house... the woods? Yeah. I've considered it before, from a tree. Credits to The Hanging Tree and Aokigahara Forest )
-I'm scared to go alone into the woods

Exsanguination (bleeding to death)

Hell yeah I actually like this but I'm a chicken person I will faint if I see so much blood... cut wrist or cut throat uh

-slow
-painful
-hell low success rate
-typical teenage attention-seeking behavior if I live
-bloody blade is slippery and hard to hold on to
-horrible bloody scene for family
-again, if I do it at home, house price will drop
-obvious as suicide

Drowning

***CAN BE MADE INTO AN ACCIDENT***

-painful [lungs will first feel like it's on fire]
-pretty slow, a couple of minutes of torture before slipping into tranquility
-I don't want my body to be found, so I want to sink I will need to hoard rocks and heavy things to the sea
-more convenient to do it at home, but gonna be obvious and house price~
-if fished out early corpse will be OK but... if I'm going to the sea then... I will be a bloated up balloon

Pills

-low success rate
-attention-seeking feat, as with wrist slashing
-takes a long time
-gonna be found in the middle of puke
-lethal pills like barbiturates are hard to obtain
-needs additonal methods combined (i.e. plastic bag, alcohol,helium)
-apparent suicide
-house price...

Strangulation/Suffocation (Apart from hanging,which I've already mentioned)

Plastic bag

-hard to make it airtight
-must be combined with other methods
-survival instinct>I will thrash around subconsciously and even if I'm unconscious I can rip the plastic bag off my head
-might be found before dead
-apparent suicide
-house price

Helium

Where the hell do I get a helium tank and how does the friggin thing work


Vehicular Impact 

***can be made into an accident***

-no use thinking about trains, now all MRT platforms have safety barriers
-getting driver into trouble for nothing
-high chance of ending up in the hospital crippled instead of the morgue









Ok... This is about it. I've thought about murdering someone or smuggling drugs, then getting the death penalty, but few kids are executed nowadays plus I don't want to kill people and I have no idea where to get hold of drugs.

Hey I have a Wish

Hey I have a wish
You just needa give your wand a swish
I don’t want to waste my breath
I said I wished for death
No, I’m not being a drama queen
Nor is it in any way related to being a teen
Let me fall asleep and never wake up
Then my existence will cease to disrupt
My family I had wanted to poison
I thought maybe I would never be forgiven ( probably )
Getting arsenic mailed causes suspicion
Or maybe some meds I could have stolen
The simplicity of an ending I once believed
Now I know ain’t that easy achieved 
Don’t say I’m a coward
‘cos ‘tis just the life that flowered
You can insist otherwise
My reaction shouldn’t be of much of a surprise
With you I haven’t needed to put on a disguise
Yet you turned out just the same as the others likewise
Don’t judge till you’ve worn my shoes and walked a thousand miles
I really wanna make you be happy so I’d give you all smiles
Chill! In the end everyone dies
Before that maybe give me some fries ( I love potatoes! )
Maybe also use your knife and give me a slice
You know to me it’s a prize
Life is a game that's hard to play 
It will still happen one day so why delay
Here in this lonely night I pray
Soon in the casket I might lay
To all my dearest it’s okay
I had chosen it to be this way
Fine you can call me an ungrateful brat
I won’t let that in any way distract
I will still carry this out with no regret
I’m no longer going to live staying trapped
I’m sure now you’d just despise me further
Well in this universe I’m just an observer
Whoever created humans made an error
Live any longer, in other’s life I’m just a terror
I know you guys all hate me 
I’ve accepted all ‘cos that’s true presumably
Though nowadays, not like I care
I’ve sunk down to the bottom of the well of despair
In me there’s a really huge tear
Of it I reckon I’m aware
It’s just that I’m not sure where
Anyways, it’s already too late to repair
I know this world is unfair
Fairness is actually indeed rare
But you know, humans just like things to be fair
It’s a trait we all share
There's no way my family and I can coexist
Hence why death I insist
The concept of ceasing to exist
Society has long learnt to resist
Instead this very idea I embrace
It drapes itself on me wherever I go, soft as lace
Once I’m gone everything will be erased
Just like I hoped, I will leave no trace
Things gonna hurt at first but time will heal 
Really, isn’t all this ideal?
Maybe it’s just me
But that’s how I want things to be
In life all that I kept to myself in a seal
I cannot, and do not know how to bring myself to reveal
You’re right my heart is made of steel
To me though it’s no big deal
After I’m gone I won’t be worried
In death the truth will forever be buried



Dedicated to no one in particular

Jerry sorry for my shut down :l

To be, or not to be

To be, or not to be, that is the question—
Whether 'tis Nobler in the mind to suffer
The Slings and Arrows of outrageous Fortune,
Or to take Arms against a Sea of troubles,
And by opposing, end them? To die, to sleep—
No more; and by a sleep, to say we end
The Heart-ache, and the thousand Natural shocks
That Flesh is heir to? 'Tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wished. To die, to sleep,
To sleep, perchance to Dream; Aye, there's the rub,
For in that sleep of death, what dreams may come,
When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
Must give us pause. There's the respect
That makes Calamity of so long life:
For who would bear the Whips and Scorns of time,
The Oppressor's wrong, the proud man's Contumely,
The pangs of despised Love, the Law’s delay,
The insolence of Office, and the Spurns
That patient merit of the unworthy takes,
When he himself might his Quietus make
With a bare Bodkin? Who would these Fardels bear,
To grunt and sweat under a weary life,
But that the dread of something after death,
The undiscovered Country, from whose bourn
No Traveller returns, Puzzles the will,
And makes us rather bear those ills we have,
Than fly to others that we know not of.
Thus Conscience does make Cowards of us all,
And thus the Native hue of Resolution
Is sicklied o'er, with the pale cast of Thought,
And enterprises of great pitch and moment,
With this regard their Currents turn awry,
And lose the name of Action.





- Hamlet

Dear Anupam

Now you might have gotten your device but soon I won't be using my phone anymore ( By the end of today ). I might take a leave for really long, but I do hope I can make it back. If I am around we can use EP or you can email me. I will miss you. I sent my love to everyone who has been with me on EP or here. Sincerely thanks.

Regards
Eileen

Update.

Hey Anupam

Where are you 'cos I've gotten back my phone and I haven't heard for you for really long, and maybe not to you, but it's been eons. Thy holidays are here now, I'm completely miserable and stuck at home. Think imma rot. Hope to hear from you soon

Before I go

Dedicated to my parents, Written for all the caged birds out there

The caged bird sings through the cold metal bars
The notes of melancholy echoing on the distant Mars
Its melody voicing the freedom it will never have
The calls for rescue reaching only the ears of the seemingly deaf

The caged bird sings through the cold metal bars
The notes of melancholy echoing on the distant Mars
The tune speaks of its heart filled with bitter pain
As it tried to free itself but in vain

The caged bird sings through the cold metal bars
The notes of melancholy echoing on the distant Mars
With wrath for the mortal and the iron it sobs
Beneath the crimson red plumage its heart throbs

The caged bird sings through the cold metal bars
The notes of melancholy echoing on the distant Mars
Its bleak eyes reflecting the soul laden with hate
Hunched and contorted under the weight


The caged bird sings through the cold metal bars
The notes of melancholy echoing on the distant Mars
One day finally arrives as it dawns
A path to freedom in which it acts on

The caged bird sings free of the cold metal bars
The notes of  joy echoing on the distant Mars
Out into the tranquil night sky it soars
It has finally let go of the semblant ever-lasting inner wars

The caged bird sings free of the cold metal bars
The notes of joy echoing on the distant Mars
The happy bird doesn’t realize all that it sees is illusive
The truth is hard to postulate for the long-held captive

The caged bird sings free of the cold metal bars
The notes of joy echoing on the distant Mars
The happy bird doesn’t realize no element is sempiternal
The truth is the harsh mortal world has never been eternal 

The caged bird sings free of the cold metal bars
The notes of joy echoing on the distant Mars
The happy bird bathes itself in a deception of bliss
The truth is it is tumbling down the unseen and unheard abyss 



Thud.



The caged bird sings free of the cold metal bars
The notes of joy echoing on the distant Mars
The roses are bleeding and the sky is crying
The wind howling and the happy bird dying

Oh fuck you holidays

The irony. So, it's a week away from the friggin June holidays. I bet if you're a normal kid you'll be like " OMF LET'S CELEBRATE IT"S FINALLY THE HOLIDAYS MAN!". Unfortunately, as you might have known, I am not quite typical, so my reaction is " OMF WTH??? GODAMMIT! THE FKING HOLIDAYS! HELL NO ". The reason for this stark contrast is the fact that my home actually resembles an asylum. That is, you're supposed to be happy there but you end up having a hard time maintaining your sanity. When your parents have gotten some water into their head it's a rather difficult job to savage them. Then your mom has got to be a bxtch and your dad is a bastard and you're like " Quick get me out of this hellhole before I die ( which is highly likely to be the case that I depart prematurely ) ". One such situation is 

Me : Peacefully reading a book
Mom : Comes home from work
WHY ARE YOU ALWAYS READING THOSE GODDAMN BOOKS OF YOURS??? *Takes book and flings it across the room*
Me : Red with fury 
Can you have some sense? Stop being a bitch! *Attempts to walk over and pick up book*
Mom : *Grabs me and tries to rip it from my hands again*

Horrible fight taking place...

Me : Gives *I-surrender-now-can-you-please-shut-up-and-stop* look and tries to walk away into room
Mom : *Yells like a banshee and tells me to not be a rude and ungrateful brat and stop right there*

More fighting...

Mom : *Goes into room, phones Dad and sobs to him*
Me : *Left with a bruise and a gash, takes the chance to go to room while wondering whether Mom should consider going to IMH*

Above is a brief description of the sad, pathetic and miserable life of Eileen at home. Hence this explains why she would rather stay in school permanently 24/7 rather than go home, where she might go crazy herself. She is currently very disgusted by Mr Yeo, her mentor, over an eminent catastrophe he has caused. She shall elaborate more in the next post regarding the collision of two worlds because Mom is now screaming at her to go out for dinner. She says goodbye to whoever is reading this and wishes you have a nice day. 

Roses are bleeding
The trees are swaying
The sky is crying
The wind is howling
The ground is caving 
I am dying

I like the places outside the auditorium

I think the rainbow panels and light reflected on the walls and floor is pretty ( and it's nice and quiet )

Honeycomb hexagons

When you got really shit grades and your table decides to mess itself up and contents pour out of your bag and you are not in the mood to tidy it up

Rant

Ok. I love transboykilljoy. He's this trans kid on EP, and we were best friends. Then he went and he never came back. I was sad to lose him and I'm really wishing he would actually come back but probably he isn't like quietnastyguy or hamncheese. So, yeah. But our words are pretty much the same. I'm a bxtch if you aren't my friend. Like omfg don't touch me. Don't touch my stuff or even talk to me. Idc who you are or how popular you are. Don't fvcking touch me. Don't fvcking talk to me. I will go off. 'Cos if nothing nice is going to come out of your mouth then heck keep it fvcking shut, ok? Oh yeah and Gabrianna. She hasn't been back since Feb, and I guess she's probably busy but anyway missed her. And top of it all I miss Mira. Wish she talks to me too. Hell miserable life I have now with me. Can't go home 'cos of the shit there and kenna have to stay in school ( deserted school since everyone went home ) alone hanging out with no humans but phone and books. Which is kinda good but I just feel miserable. And it's always stormy, dark and utterly depressing afternoons. It feels like the heavens are telling me " 'ey yer life is alotta o' misery, end it " so I'm like fvck why not and I miss Anupam too. When will you be back? I miss everyone. All those on EP who had gone and never returned. Leaving behind an unsealed mystery and hanging hopes - no goodbyes, no end-off. I wish people can stop doing this to me. One day I would be really happy because I found someone who gets me and we're like sworn sisters or something and the next day I don't hear a word again or they have deleted their account. It feels so horribly shit, you know. To have safety and assurance, and that feeling of family. Then have it robbed from you once more, leaving you devoid of feelings, another empty cast. Like I give you a blanket when you're freezing and you warm up and feel loved and surrounded by comfort and wrapped up in a nice lovely drifting bubble then I rip the blanket off you and the bubble pops and you land on the cold ground with a nasty thud and you break a little, somewhere. Don't do this to people. Think how it would be if that's you.

When I am gone

Dedicated to my parents, after my departure from Planet Earth





It's not my fault I didn't choose to be born
It's not your fault either so you don't have to mourn
It's something which both parties long knew 
It has happened and I don't blame you
You might not realize but I was on my own
Through the journey of life I walked alone
You didn't like my attitude but I wasn't being rude
The stakes were too high to let you intrude
In my heart I knew you also had it rough
So I made my leave 'cos all this is enough
You draped me with an acid-soaked rug
When I need understanding like a drug
I don't know, maybe it's in our blood
But your words drowned me like a flood
All this while it felt like I was stuck
Maybe it could've gotten better with more luck
I think I just enclosed myself in a bubble
Because you know, I hate trouble
I don't know, that's just how everything goes
Maybe one day you'll have another child who knows
I wanted to, it's just that I cannot
To let go of the past that I never forgot
I apologize that it's now you have to wait until
But let me make it clear that words do kill

Epilogue

Under the sleeve lies a secret forever untold
Buried in the blankets of deception and lies
What had caused it no one knows
Except for the girl whose scars she own
Day and night she prayed the secret be kept
So she might continue the art of the blade
On her skin she drags it across
The mitigation she felt 
No one could understand
For how can pain be used to cure?
But she knows 
To alleviate the inner
The outer shalt hurt
There's no win-win situation
It's a sacrifice of either one
Absolute escape can never be achieved
Pain will always mark its presence
It's only how we choose to feel it
Physical pain is more cinch to cope 
'Cos we're the one controlling it
She can let it stop if she want
She can let it bleed if she please
There can never be better than being in control
At least the pain lets her know she's alive
Her lips break into a smile as she saw the crimson red
Dripping noiselessly onto the immaculate marble floor
The scars will hold prove to all that transpired
As evidence of the pain carved into her skin
The years will pass but they will never fade
As aching reminders of the bitter moments
Every glimpse at them brings tears to her eyes
As her heart wrenches reminiscing the past
Her mind floods with the vivid memories of hurt
The words hurled at her like a thousand knives
Leaving her wounded and battered 
She can't be strong and fight
Unless her lacerations are completely healed
But no one ever saw 
So no one has came to her aid
Instead they continued to injure
Sticks and stones may break her bones
But words shatter the inside
It's not only the outside
Don't just look at the surface
'Cos there's much more underneath
Hidden
For you to delve into the truth behind the mask of smiles
If you are truly concerned
For you to unravel the secret
If you truly seek to correlate
For you to show your empathy
If you truly think you are a friend
For you to heal the wounds
If you truly want to save her
A little loss of blood each time will not kill her
It's not the act itself that is fatal
What is lethal is the thoughts that accompany
The drive behind the behaviour of self-destruct
The reasons for bringing the blade to one's own skin
Day by day as it all piles up
Eventually it will all lead to that one outcome
Maybe not tonight, next week or tomorrow
One day the dark secret will be brought to light
For there is no ever-lasting element in the mortal world
One day she will find that it no longer suffices
For the pain gets too over-whelming for the physical to counter
Now what's left is the only way she sees to free herself
Out of the world that comes crashing down on her
To end the life she had so painstakingly fought through
For without life none exists
Not feeling, thoughts nor pain
Life sent her to death as a gift
Death enveloped her in her welcoming open arms
Death loves her for she is a child of darkness
Born to suffer in the blinding light of life
Now that she's returned to the home of the fallen angels
He shall keep her forever

Untitled

With the words accompanies the arrows of hurt
Raining endlessly onto my soul like hammers shattering glass
Piercing mercilessly through my heart
Thrusting my spirit down the darkness of the abyss
It's not only the demons drowning me
I feel like
Everyone is contributing to the stones weighing me down
Thou shalt not live, they say
The crystal clear vision beneath the waters
My lungs fight for air
My blood gushes through the network of veins
Unfortunately as I feel this
I have yet to escape from life.
Yet.
The profound beauty of death
The sweet luring scent of the promised paradise 
I know I'm just building castles in the air
For I know there doesn't exist utopia
Illusions aren't sempiternal
Nothing is everlasting
Even still I do hold the hope for Hereafter
For which the only accessible route is with the reaper through the darkness
The embrace of the unseen
Wrapping me around in her seemingly infinite entity
The cool sensation of the water gently caressing my skin
I once wished 
For felicity
For warmth to hold me in its arms
For laughter to kiss my lips
For the torment to alleviate
For the world to stop turning

Now I know this wouldn't be attainable 
Never
As long as I'm on Earth
The restrictions of the mortal is de trop
I needa get out


Finding my way through the ruins of what was my mind
I winced as I struggled to pull out of its faltering yet still strong clutches
Its grasp around my neck loosened for a moment
I spluttered, I choked and I knew what I had to do

I 

Ran 

and Ran

Away 

and Away

From myself

It isn't just say
It's a fact
I'm a threat
To myself
I just got to run
So I won't die
In my own hands
I just got to break free
Of my own clutches
I hate to admit
But this is the truth
Run with me
Not from me
'cos I need you
I'm sorry 
If that seems
Preposterous
But I just wanna someone
Doesn't matter who
To reach out
Bring me back
Give me the courage
To face myself
Standing upright
Not cowering in fear
Give me the strength
To face my demons
Without running
'cos I wanna have myself back
I've been lost for too long
I've ventured too deep into the woods
Sank too deep under the water
Got too entangled in the intricate threads of life
Fucked my life up too much

I've slept for too long
Caught up in a dream
Or was it a nightmare?

I've just woken up
The world is in a fog
Can you lead me to the right path
Help me find my way back to myself
Help me clear up the winding roads ahead
Help me uncloud my vision

Is there anyone out there?
For it feels like I'm talking to myself
Can anyone hear me?
For it seems like my ears are the only pair my cries have reached
Am I alone in this struggle?
For it certainly seems like I am.

The debate on the right of minors to access information regarding CTB

Below is an excerpt of one of the many threads under the topic " Should we have minors here?" in SMH.

My opinions are underlined. <They aren't posted on the newsgroup themselves>

Should we have minors here?

Hollywood

11/26/14

State your opinion.

Click here to Reply

silversurfer

11/26/14

yes. it's not like we can stop them anyway.

rl

11/26/14

No.

Alien

11/26/14

I agree with rl, I don't think we should. I know that some will sneak through sometimes but to actually know they are here and allow them to be here I think would be bad for the group.

zooey

11/26/14

No, that can only harm the group and bring unwanted attention. 

>Seriously why the fuck will we want to do harm to the group? Ok I don't speak for all but I'm sure I am definitely speaking for most of us but we do know to cherish this safe and open community we have here right now and not take it for granted. Not all of us are attention-seeking and trying to get interventionists up our back tracking all our web history and shit. Definitely if we want to CTB we will clear all the history first before we go? Maybe just add in highlights and caps in the rules part - clear all traces leading to SMH before we go. Doesn't that solve the problem? ( Some people mightn't read that BUT isn't it the same for not allowing minors there? There isn't a perfect solution - all solutions have loopholes, just like I am a minor but still I am an ASHer and participating in the newsgroups and IRCs. Unless you want us to each scan our identity card or something and submit that before we can join the newsgroups and associated chatrooms, there really isn't any foolproof way to keep us out - why are you even doing that in the first place? ) Instead of stripping us of our rights to access adequate information in order to make wise and informed decisions just because of our age, shouldn't we all share as a community like the original ASH culture and core values stated? A place where there is no restriction? Age aside, all of us are like-minded ASHers - We do want to get on the same bus - heading for the same destination. Embrace this instead of worrying about the troubles we might cause ( NOTE: We are not ungrateful brats ) - Has any of this worries actually REALLY happened? Not that I have heard of.

silversurfer

11/26/14

many of us here have had suicidal urges since we were very young. Nothing changed then and nothings changed now, in fact things have gotten worse with age. If a minor wants to ctb good. I'm not going to be a hypocrite and start telling people who can and who can't ctb. People say I shouldn't ctb because I'm only mentally ill, little do they know that these meds I take make me sleep all the time and get fat so I don't take them and end up in hospital. Other people believe if you have a terminal illness you shouldn't ctb either.

fuck people. Only you as an individual know what you need. Obviously I don't want a 13 year old to go kill themselves but I'm not going to go all pro-life on their ass either. The information is out there, at the end of the day they'll do what they need to do anyway.

> *claps* this is the ASH role model

RedRightHand

11/26/14

I feel a bit conflicted about the subject.

On one hand I feel minors are too young to commit suicide, especially since they haven't yet grown old enough to truly discover themselves. And it's therefore wrong to provide them with methods and information.

On the other hand, I ask myself who am I to judge them? I haven't walked in their shoes and don't know what they have been through to end up here. There are people who would say even I'm too young to ctb. I turn 27 in a couple of months.

Ultimately, minors are going to end up joining regardless and we wouldn't even know. There's no age verification to join the group that I'm aware of and even those are simple to circumvent.

> Another wise folk we have here

zooey

11/26/14

There a difference between not allowing minors on the group for legal reasons > Hey I don't think this is much legal even for adults, huh?  and being hypocritical or pro life.  By the way, did you really mean "If a minor wants to ctb good."?  I think it's a crying shame that the life of a young person can be so bad that they want to end it and I know exactly how it feels to be a child trapped in a hellish existence.  The fact that we can't have minors as members of the group in no way diminishes my compassion for or understanding of them.  If we allow children to become members then it's just a matter of time before there is no group at all.  Having said that, I remain resolutely pro choice.

On Wednesday, 26 November 2014 10:15:18 UTC, silversurfer wrote:

many of us here have had suicidal urges since we were very young. Nothing changed then and nothings changed now, in fact things have gotten worse with age. If a minor wants to ctb good. I'm not going to be a hypocrite and start telling people who can and who can't ctb. People say I shouldn't ctb because I'm only mentally ill, little do they know that these meds I take make me sleep all the time and get fat so I don't take them and end up in hospital. Other people believe if you have a terminal illness you shouldn't ctb either.

fuck people. Only you as an individual know what you need. Obviously I don't want a 13 year old to go kill themselves but I'm not going to go all pro-life on their ass either. The information is out there, at the end of the day they'll do what they need to do anyway.

This post has been edited

RedRightHand

11/26/14

The legal aspect makes sense. We're  already skating on thin ice in that regard. And it would be awful for the group to be shut down. I don't know of any other groups that allow the discussion of methods. ASH/ASM were good in their time but they have become cesspools thanks to the trolls.

deyr

11/26/14

I have to agree with silversurfer on this matter. Honestly, who are we to judge, let alone stop, a complete stranger who has also surpassed their limit of pain merely because of their age?

Didn't any of you guys already feel mature enough to make important decisions when you were 13? Didn't you want legal adults to respect you and treat you as an adult as well? And more importantly, haven't most of us here today felt the same or somewhat similar suicidal feelings from a young age? What if you had acted on your feelings when you were a teenager? Would that really make a difference to your own life now?

I know the answers to those questions as they apply to me, and i know that if someone's destiny is to die by their own hand it will happen. Whether during their teen years or as elders, it will happen because age doesn't matter. What matters is that they are the same and very much likely to carry those feelings on throughout their life until they may finally do it.

Also, i think it's been established before that governments don't really give a fuck about suicidal people. I mean come on, the US had even been making massive purchases of four people coffins; when a nation is preparing to eliminate millions, why would they care about the few who succeed at eliminating themselves? Basically, if they wanted to shut this group down they would have done so already.

> well said.

silversurfer

11/26/14

@Zooey 'By the way, did you really mean "If a minor wants to ctb good."?

yes, I did. It is not my business if someone wants to ctb or not. I don't condemn it, nor do I encourage it. Your body, your choice.

silversurfer

11/26/14

btw I'm assuming that the OP's question was theoretical and your not really considering letting minors join? because if it's not well I'm sure it's illegal and you can't age verify not really so it's a moot conversation to be having really.

unless you are just saying then it gets more interesting.

MM

11/26/14

It's really just the legal aspect that would insist the group to keep minors "away", just as porn sites do. We all know that kids discover porn anyway, way way before they're 18 (or 21). Just some of life's usual hypocrisies.

4 messages have been deleted.

zooey

11/26/14

@silversurfer, I think you'll find the word good in this context is encouragement.  That could have been tricky for you if this weren't merely a hypothetical discussion.

Another point is, if we don't draw the line at 18, where do we draw the line: 8 or younger, 12, 14, 16?   We do have to draw the line somewhere.  I, and I'm sure many others, wouldn't want to be part of some sick group that shares methods with 12 year olds, thereby enabling them to kill themselves.  Given that there does have to be a cut off point, I don't see the problem with making that the age of majority?  It safeguards the group legally and prevents it from degenerating into an immoral entity.  To those who think that governments don't care, try involving children and I guarantee they will care.  We have already seen evidence of that on an off-shoot of this group.

> wtf the government's got some bullshit in their head too. Children or adults, all are equal LIVES right? So young lives are worth more and deserve more concern, are they trying to express?

If they do care, they will care equally much, if not more about you grown-ups too.

silversurfer

11/26/14

@Zooey fine. change what I said from 'good' to 'I don't care'. ctb don't ctb I really don't care. People can do what they want with their bodies lol. I was only responding to the OP's comment I have no interest what so ever in who is allowed in the group.

NMills

11/27/14

At first I read this and thought.. you know human rights and yea of course.  And then I thought back to when I was a minor.  A place like this is not appropriate for someone that young.  Brains aren't fully developed until idk like 25 or omsthing.  I know a bunch of kids that made sucidal "gestures" when they were youngr and realized they didn't want to die.  A person changes sooo much during those years...I would say minors should definitely have to wait to access a place like this until they have more time to grow and develop more understanding.

NMills

11/27/14

how would we even be able to block minors from this website though?  

RedRightHand

11/27/14

You can't unfortunately

.> That's right. You can't. 

buduta

11/27/14

I remember that when i was younger, there were no big difference. I think it depend also. If you say a 8-10 years old kid, i think it's wrong to see a 10y kid here. But if you mean 15-17 minor that want to ctb.. well, sometime, some of them are more mature than some adult (i was one of those 'more mature' at that age). Afterall, kids are going to lie with their age, and there's no way to verify the age of users here. I'm 26, soon 27, and i don't see a major difference about me now from who i was when i had 17. And the desire to ctb can catch you at any age.

Alien

11/27/14

Minors will sneak through into here and either lie about their age or just lurk and that is one thing but when we are fully aware that somebody of say 13 is asking questions that is where the problems start. It is not that because of their age they don't know what they are doing so much as it is the potential problems that could arise if it comes the the attention of their parents or the authorities and the problems that would cause the group. I for one would ignore any questions that came from someone I knew to be quite young.

I think it is best to at least state a minimum age to join the group even if nobody takes any notice of that it does make the group look more responsible.

rl

11/27/14

In most jurisdictions, at the age of 18 people are responsible for looking after themselves. Under the age of 18, parents are at least partially responsible for their child's welfare.

As far as this group goes, that is a very important distinction. I for one do not want the wrath of parents coming down on this group and jeopardising its very existence.

departureunknown

11/27/14

IF they do not tell us they are minors we will never know.

BUT I put a rifle to my head and pulled the trigger when I was 14. When I pulled that trigger I should

have CTB. 

NOW I am 55 and wish I had died when I was 14. I should have died a few times along the way but definitely when I was

52 via H2S.

This group could be fragmented out into various subsets (ie under 18, terminally ill, major depression ...) but for what purpose?

Society as a whole does not understand choosing death at any age or condition.

buduta

11/27/14

but minor or not,,, in both cases, i guess most of the time, if there's a suicide, people will investigate, and may find this forum, and they will try to put the fault on this place just because pro-life do-gooders are like that. This is why i recommand to change hard drive before proceeding, reinstall windows and your usual stuff on your new hard-drive, visit some casual websites but not this place. Be sure to destroy the old Hard-Drive, and this place have a chance to be spared. The only point, is that if they are minor, for some reason, it will just look worse in the media, and people may push a little further to shut down this place. But even with adult, i think it can get the same if we don't change our hard drive before proceeding.

With adult we still need to take care. We can ask an age limit to look more responsible (i even recommand it), but if a kid decide to lie his age, and parents found the website after the death of their child, too bad for this place, because i don't think they will spare this place just because there was an age limit.

Snow White

11/27/14

No one should CTB without exhausting their treatment options and, as most of us know, it takes years for someone who even only has simple depression to exhaust their treatment options. I know I'm in the minority on this but I think the minimum age for joining should be 30. I think people should be asked their age without telling them what the minimum age requirement is, and I think they should also be asked what their diagnosis is and what treatments they've tried. Age exceptions could be made on a case by case basis. But the flip side of that is that if a shrink has thrown two ADs and a benzo at someone and then thrown up their hands and said it's the fault of the patient that they aren't getting better, then that person should be advised that they need to find a new shrink (and a cognitive behavioral therapist as well if at all possible). And that should be done regardless of their age. People can lie about their age, but it would be difficult for a person to fake a medical history that involved exhausting their treatment options.

I have been on and off (mostly on) this kind of group since 2007. I can guarantee that whoever acts as gatekeeper for this group will be very surprised by the people wanting to join who have either 1) very clearly *not* exhausted their treatment options or 2) have not gotten any treatment at all.

We need to keep in mind that depression is normally a highly treatable illness, but there are a lot of young people who don't know that and who are too ashamed to even tell anyone they know they are seriously considering suicide. I was one of those young people when I was in college because I became overwhelmed by my coursework. After I got out of school, I was VERY glad I didn't kill myself and I was fortunate in that I had a pretty good life until health problems struck me down when I was 38. When that happened, I became very depressed again but by then I was no longer a naive young person and I wasn't shy about talking about what was going on with me. I sought help and my depression was 100% cured by an AD. My nephew, however, killed himself at the end of his junior year in college because he had become depressed because of the difficulty of the advanced science classes he was taking (we found out after his death that he had passed all of his classes) and because his ex-girlfriend had gotten pregnant by another guy. He was a seemingly happy-go-lucky kid who had a lot of friends and no one had any idea that he was depressed. He had not told a single soul. IMHO, we should be screening for people like my nephew as well as for the people who are unknowingly getting lousy mental health care.

This post has been edited

buduta

11/27/14

Snow White, you think the limit should be 30? Do you seriously think there would be a big difference if i wait 3 years and a couple of month? There was no change in more than the past 10 years, it's obvious there will have no change in the next 3 years. If majority legal age to carry a gun is set to 18, then, i think we can choose what we want to do with our life at 18. And about medical, you seem to forget that people and medical are pro-life, not pro-choice. I think they will refuse to give proof papers, and even if i had proof that i tried every other possibility, i would be one of them who would refuse to give copy of my papers to access this place, for obvious privacy reason. You say you are in this kind of groups since 2007, well i think you don't know the private life of all these people, so you can't afffirm if they tried or not what is considered "everything". And "everything" is different from one person to another. There's not a lot of options for the world, if you think Therapist, Drugs, can solve all problems or that people need to try these before having a right on their life, i'm sorry, but for me, i didn't tried medications, and i will not, because medication will not change the facts that makes me wanting to kill myself.

Finally, i'm glad that it doesn't work the way you want here, because, i'm sorry but i don't share your point of view at all on the subject.

Snow White

11/27/14

"Do you seriously think there would be a big difference if i wait 3 years and a couple of month?"

As I said, exceptions could be made on a case by case basis.

 "I didn't tried medications, and i will not, because medication will not change the facts that makes me wanting to kill myself."

Meds work for most people. Because of my physical (and very painful) health problems, I know many people who have chronic pain who are taking ADs for depression and who are benefitting from them. You have been told incorrect information. Whether you take meds or not is your choice, but you have not exhausted your treatment options and I hope you will reconsider trying them. If you're planning to CTB anyway, what do have to lose by trying them?

Snow White

11/27/14

P.S. I wasn't talking about providing medical records. I simply meant that people could be asked what treatments they've tried.

buduta

11/27/14

<<If you're planning to CTB anyway, what do have to lose by trying them?>>

Because it's not a health problem. So it can't change. These drugs just cause more problems. They want you to take them because they make money out of it. If i knew there was at least 0,01% of chance to change my desire of ctb, then, i would consider it. But what need to be changed in my life is fact, and giving me a medication will not change these facts. I consider i tried everything even without taking medication, because medication doesn't apply in my case.

Aborted

11/27/14

Didn't read any of the replies. I will answer anyway: NO. But there's not much we can do about it.

Hollywood

11/27/14

I'm just asking theoretically. Because I've seen the topic brought up a lot lately.

Personally, I think snow white, rl, and silver surfer have brought up many good points.

silversurfer

11/27/14

@SnowWhite

30?!!!!

hopefully by then I would  have flung myself off a building and ctb already. That's 7 years away from now so I got plenty of time to lose my fear of heights and death.

This post has been edited

W

11/27/14

I nearly died at the age of 13, and found these forums at 17.
With that being said, I agree with those who say openly allowing miners here poses a serious legal risk to this place. Obviously if they don't reveal their true age than not much can be done, but I think it's a good rule of thumb not to allow anyone who says they're under 18.
Adults who come here also need to be careful, never forget Suzy Gonzales and how her parents tried to shut ASH down.

silversurfer

11/27/14

@w

Yeah I've just looked up the SG story http://suzyslaw.com/about-suzy/suzanne-gonzales/

and i'm shaking with rage. fuck these do-gooders. I get so unbelievably angry when people dare to judge people like us. I literally am getting tears in my eyes reading this shit about how this person's friends are blaming forum members for their loved ones suicide.

I can't. I literally don't give a FUCK who decides to ctb and who doesn't because I respect people's needs regarding their bodies and I understand the PAIN, the never-ending cycle of drugs, vomit and sleep I UNDERSTAND how that shit can go on for YEARS. So  how fucking DARE people out there even think they understand what is going on in our heads. I mean two can play that game. for all I know her family was shit and that's why she ctb. who blames innocent strangers that's messed up.

I'm in enough pain as it is and I join forums like this because I know other people understand me and suicidal ideation is a HUGE part of my depression but no one even my psychistrist wants to talk about it so I get my feelings on it off here. Now for some person who knows FUCK ALL about my situation to be all like 'her negativity encouraged so and so' like fuck off. Stop blaming people for you fucking up your daughter's/friends life you twats.

so messed up. I can't even

> FOR FUCK'S SAKE WTF AS I AM READING THE GODDMAN BULLSHIT ON THAT WRETCHED PAGE I'M ALMOST HAVING A HEART SEIZURE. CAN THERE BE MORE IGNORANT, SELF-CENTERED, PATHETIC AND APATHETIC  HUMANS??? ( SADLY YES ) IN THE ASH FAQ IT IS FUCKING CLEARLY STATED THAT ASH IS PRO-CHOICE AND WE DO NOT FUCKING WELCOME ANTI-SUICIDE ACTIVISTS AND PRO-LIFE ENTHUSIASTS. I ASSUME THIS PERSON MADE A CHOICE TO COME INTO THE ASH COMMUNITY? WE DID NOT PUT A GUN TO HER HEAD AND FORCE HER IN? NO? AND BY WILLINGLY JOINING US AND POSTING TO ASH, SHE SHOULD BE DOWNRIGHT FUCKING AWARE OF THE CONDITIONS AND PRINCIPLES OF THE GROUP AND OUR CORE VALUES??? EVEN IF SHE IS NOT AN ASHER???  (POSTING DOESN'T MAKE YOU AN ASHER AND LIKEWISE YOU DO NOT HAVE TO POST TO ASH TO BE AN ASHER ) SHE SHOULD RESPECT US RIGHT? SHE SHOULD AT LEAST KNOW? HENCE WHY THE FUCK ARE HER PARENTS AND FRIENDS ETC ETC PUSHING THE BLAME ON TO ASHERS? THEY CAN'T ACCEPT THE FACT THAT THEIR DAUGHTER/FRIEND MADE SUCH A CHOICE ON HER OWN AND INSISTED THAT IT WAS THE RESULT OF OTHERS' ACTIONS AND INFLUENCES? THIS IS JUST SHEER PETTINESS AND REFLECTS ON HOW SHALLOW THEY ARE AS HUMANS. JUST BECAUSE OF THEIR UNACCEPTANCE THEY IMPOSE FALSE LABELS AND IDENTITIES ON OTHER AND INFLICT OTHERS, MANY WHO ARE ACTUALLY IN THE SAME SITUATION AS THEIR DAUGHTER/FRIEND WAS, SHAME AND GUILT. 

THESE PEOPLE DESERVE TO FUCKING BURN IN HELL. THE PEOPLE WHOM I DESPISE THE MOST - PEOPLE WHO REFUSE TO ACCEPT FACTS THAT ARE EMINENTLY UNCHANGABLE 

silversurfer

11/27/14

that's the last time i'm ever going to read anyone's analysis of groups like these. I am beyond enranged. who writes a 'tribute' page to a loved one and then goes on to blame 99% of the person's ctb on strangers?

easily influenced my arse.

how about we burn all books because someone might get influenced by peter pan and think they can fly so they go SPLAT on the concrete below.

if you're that easily influenced then it's evolution working isn't it.

un-fucking-believable...-end rant-

A Bridge Too Far

11/27/14

On Thursday, November 27, 2014 5:22:11 AM UTC+7, Snow White wrote:

No one should CTB without exhausting their treatment options

 Why.

Explain to me the value of life.

I'm 60+. I have used life. Lots of experiences, learnt more than most. Joys and hell. Ecstasy and depression. Physical and mental suffering. Achievement and failure.

The moment I'm dead it all means nothing. Zero. Had I lived a day or a century makes no difference. Great life or shitty life - no difference. All the pain and all the pleasure - irrelevant.

Life has no intrinsic value. That's the fact most are scared to admit to themselves - which is why they cook up all kinds of ridiculous, airy-fairy woo-woo. We die, at 1, 10, 20, 80. It matters not a jot at what age or whether you were happy or suffering.

This post has been edited

silversurfer

11/27/14

'Life has no intrinsic value.'

This. Absolutely this.

deyr

11/27/14

A bridge too far got it right. Guys, whether someone ctb or not, they will still have every chance of dying from the moment they are born (if they are born) to every moment of every day they may live. Do those here who are against minors also believe minors can't die, period? Death happens. Everyone is slowly dying from the moment of conception. And this argument makes me extremely glad there is no way to prevent anyone from finding and using this place. It is very hypocritical to say that anyone below x age shouldn't commit suicide. I am pro-choice no matter what.

And again, citing laws or legal shit for the argument is a moot point. If they wanted to shut down even ASM and ASH they would have done so already. The case of that girl proves that no one gives a shit about the soon-to-commit; even those who knew her placed the blame on strangers to avoid facing the fact that it was most likely all their fault. They won't shut down places for few thousand suicidal people to learn about methods because they just don't give a fuck.

rl

11/27/14

Actually, given that ASM & ASH exist within usenet, it is not possible to shut them down, since the Usenet network is decentralised.

SMH is a different matter, Google just have to flick a switch, and then that is that.

On Thursday, 27 November 2014 14:19:16 UTC, deyr wrote:

If they wanted to shut down even ASM and ASH they would have done so already.

This message has been deleted.

zooey

11/27/14

Are you really unable to see the flaws in your argument?  First of all, no-one is saying that people below a certain age don't die: we are saying that this group shouldn't facilitate that.  There is no hypocrisy in that statement.  However, there is a lot selfishness in your nihilistic stance: as long as you get what you need from the group, you don't care what happens to it after that.  I'm beginning to suspect that the reason for your indefensible arguments is the fact that you are underage yourself.  Care to comment on that?

On Thursday, 27 November 2014 14:19:16 UTC, deyr wrote:

Do those here who are against minors also believe minors can't die, period? Death happens. Everyone is slowly dying from the moment of conception. And this argument makes me extremely glad there is no way to prevent anyone from finding and using this place. It is very hypocritical to say that anyone below x age shouldn't commit suicide. I am pro-choice no matter what.

And again, citing laws or legal shit for the argument is a moot point. If they wanted to shut down even ASM and ASH they would have done so already. The case of that girl proves that no one gives a shit about the soon-to-commit; even those who knew her placed the blame on strangers to avoid facing the fact that it was most likely all their fault. They won't shut down places for few thousand suicidal people to learn about methods because they just don't give a fuck.

deyr

11/28/14

I'm 24. Care to actually care for anything regarding my being? No? Good.

herbivore

11/28/14

we are saying that this group shouldn't facilitate that.

ok. well, even though i identify with the most hard-core pro-choice people here, deyr & bridge & silver &c., and i think that maybe even 8-year olds or 2-year olds should have the freedom to choose whether they would like to live with pain or not...

but given that (1) there's no real enforceable filter for age, and (2) angry, grieving parents are the most motivated to get political about this all...

there's nothing to do but to maintain appearances, have some discretion, and keep the group safe by not bullbaiting parents with dead children.

zooey

11/28/14

I am cursed with being empathetic to a degree that isn't particularly good for my health but just carry on making inaccurate assumptions about me, if that means you don't have to take the trouble to review your misconceptions of all of mankind.

On Thursday, 27 November 2014 16:38:09 UTC, deyr wrote:

I'm 24. Care to actually care for anything regarding my being? No? Good.

zooey

11/28/14

Really?  8 and 2 year olds?  Do you seriously think 2 year olds are capable of making such a decision?

- show quoted text -

No Alarms

11/28/14

No, they shouldn't be on here. I agree with Zooey's points.  Also, we know that the neurobiology of minors is not fully developed yet - the brain is still too susceptible to outside influence both physiologically (since there  is still development) and through environmental influence..  There are still a lot of changes going on in the brain - and they haven't experienced enough to know how to deal with things entirely.  If suicide is presented as the main option to people who have failed (thus far) to develop other coping mechanisms (while they still CAN - under 20ish - I think, it's easier to figure out other ways to deal with things - and the "hopelessness" of your life can be blown out of proportion at 16 because you haven't experienced much yet) I don't think it's good for them to read about suicide as a main alternative.  I don't think it's a good idea for minors to be on pro-anorexia websites either, but there's not much people can do.

In my experience, had I successfully committed suicide at 15 (when I first tried to do it - an absurd attempt with some useless pills) - then I could've avoided a very shitty life... BUT  maybe  things would have improved.  There's no way to have known.  If I were given more accurate info on how to do it (and was successful) - then I wouldn't have had the chance to live a better life (unfortunately, I never did - but the odds were in my favor).  Who knows how many teen agers go through depression and then get over it?  Probably a lot more than adults.